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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:57 pm 
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The fact that the US got nukes first is probably why we're still here. If Russia or the Nazis had them first would only 2 have been used? All empires tend to be oppressive but some are worse than others and some are just evil. The US is one of the less offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:53 pm 
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HairyGT4 wrote:The US is one of the less offensive.


I think a lot of the world would disagree with that, me included, though I agree all empires are pretty awful.

The idea that the US has acted in this case (or almost any other) to protect the interests of civilians in another country is to me laughable. It acts as it always has, to protect its own interests, militarily, strategically, and regardless of the consequences. All too often resulting in a more dangerous world.

Throughout history this has meant supporting the overthrow of democractically elected leaders, propping up dictators while it's convenient, and generally showing a blatant disregard for international law.

Some things never change...

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:36 am 
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indeed Etherealise and agree - maybe i just don't get it 'the US for the most part stayed out of syria' - how thoughtful - heartfelt nonsense I feel - invasion and committing murder in other people's countries is questionable to say the least


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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:22 am 
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Etherealise wrote:[ U.S. ] It acts as it always has, to protect its own interests, militarily, strategically, and regardless of the consequences. All too often resulting in a more dangerous world.

Throughout history this has meant supporting the overthrow of democractically elected leaders, propping up dictators while it's convenient, and generally showing a blatant disregard for international law.

Some things never change...

...end quote...

with all due respect guys, again ~ here you refer to the 'U.S.' as
"it "...

"It acts ...as it always has"

If you believe in a deep state run by people with a single mentality for all-time, then so be it ~ except don't call it the U.S, because that is not what you are even talking about. Call them by their names ~ they have names just like you and I do ~ otherwise all you are doing is reinforcing the same old shite mind control of 'ancestral fault' that is no different than racial or ethnic prejudice.

I know it is reinforced by the Bible, Torah, Quran, to name a few
but it is bigotry nonetheless, and promotes ignorance.

Definitely not the word of God.

Sorry.

History will decide what kind of President that Trump turns out to be.

History has already decided what
Butcher Assad is.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:32 am 
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'it' being - for example enola gay/trueman, b#sh senior and junior, reagan, william of orange - fill in the blank's......


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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:47 am 
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only two of the people you mention there are still alive, and those two are no longer in positions of power, but if you believe they should stand trial in the Hague for war crimes, by all means ~ state your case, Brown Dawn (I believe you just did!)

I rest mine !

Cheers :-)

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:26 am 
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... oh, one more thing ~ almost forgot the all-important acknowledgment :

I always appreciate an opportunity to mention what I have acknowledged before on this forum ~ I too am guilty of the very sort of prejudicial programming I just outlined in my previous post.

We learn of it in either or both of two ways :

We are victim and/or perpetrator.

For most humans, at one time or another in our lives, it will be both. I am no different.

So apologies to Etherealise and Brown Dawn and any/all for not prefacing that up front.

I am only trying to spread awareness of what seems to be ingrained deeply in our culture through primal conditioning.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:54 am 
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Vik - cosmic hug's to you across the ocean! - i alway's enjoy your thoughts - sometimes i don't agree but that's what makes it interesting! - i guess we're on the same side of the coin - let's stick together just for the roller coaster ride of life! - much love


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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:55 am 
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Apologies for not being clear. When I say "The U.S" of course I mean the government, not the people, as I'm talking about foreign policy. Perhaps I should have added "government" though, as I can see how it might read differently.

I'm well aware there are many citizens that don't agree with US foreign policy as much as there are those who do agree with it. I don't see that as being prejudicial, as I wouldn't expect to generalise about a whole population in that way. It is however a bit easier to generalise about foreign policy when there's certain trends and constants over many years (whether or not you agree with them)

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism... in fact there's often attempts here to stop criticism of government policy by labelling critics "un-australian" which I think is extraordinary in a democracy, and an attempt to stifle debate. It is possible to be very critical of what successive governments to in our name (or another people's name) whilst separating that from your opinion of the people more generally. In fact I think that's healthy in a democracy.

Of course I do not believe we live in healthy democracies... IMHO there is mind control going on in democracies too, it's just more subtle, aided by corporate media.

As for war crimes, well as we know from the trial with Bush, Blair & Howard, those responsible will never be brought to justice.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:40 pm 
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'It' be it U.S.A. or any other state = 'Collective Guilt' upon it's own nation.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:44 pm 
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The use of chemical weapons is banned globally. Someone uses them - should they go unpunished? Don't care who tw*ts the user as long as someone does!

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Etherealise wrote:Apologies for not being clear. When I say "The U.S" of course I mean the government, not the people, as I'm talking about foreign policy. Perhaps I should have added "government" though, as I can see how it might read differently.

I'm well aware there are many citizens that don't agree with US foreign policy as much as there are those who do agree with it. I don't see that as being prejudicial, as I wouldn't expect to generalise about a whole population in that way. It is however a bit easier to generalise about foreign policy when there's certain trends and constants over many years (whether or not you agree with them)

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism... in fact there's often attempts here to stop criticism of government policy by labelling critics "un-australian" which I think is extraordinary in a democracy, and an attempt to stifle debate. It is possible to be very critical of what successive governments to in our name (or another people's name) whilst separating that from your opinion of the people more generally. In fact I think that's healthy in a democracy.

Of course I do not believe we live in healthy democracies... IMHO there is mind control going on in democracies too, it's just more subtle, aided by corporate media.

As for war crimes, well as we know from the trial with Bush, Blair & Howard, those responsible will never be brought to justice.

...end quote...


cheers, Etherealise ~ good points.
I had in point meant oligarchic capitalists (as a name ) as opposed to any specific nation. But true ~ your second point being equally valid as well, obviously when referring to nations' current governments and their current actions. (e.g.: not saddling Putin or the people of Russia for the crimes of Stalin, etc.)

similarly, 'collective guilt' can only be rightly applied in collective societal scope with regard to current cause-effect, and even here we have to be careful, as Guilt implies (to some, at least) some measure of Due-Punishment. This points out the folly of war in general.

But an obvious point of acknowledgement is making the distinction between the good citizens of any nation and standing with them in opposition to those within their society and or their governments which act unacceptably.

Everone's comments here, as well as the discussion in general have helped me to bring into focus another thought as well. Until leaders in any government are willing to acknowledge their predecessors folly openly and rally people in the cause to change old and failed policy, then it is pretty difficult for any one of us to expect any real and significant change.

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:13 pm 
Funny how this thread's been going on for 56 pages and WWIII hasn't broken out yet.

Or should that be "since 1945" ? ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:16 pm 
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*knocking wood*

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 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Brown Dawn wrote:Vik - cosmic hug's to you across the ocean! - i alway's enjoy your thoughts - sometimes i don't agree but that's what makes it interesting! - i guess we're on the same side of the coin - let's stick together just for the roller coaster ride of life! - much love



cheers, Brown Dawn ~ as always, reciprocal cosmic hugs across the ocean !
:-)

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