Register    Login    Search    FAQ   Arcade 

Welcome
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, register and join our community today

When posting to this forum you agree to the following conditions

a-
you shall not use the Sites or the Interactive Services to transmit or knowingly or recklessly receive (or knowingly or recklessly authorise or permit any other person to receive or transmit) material which is obscene, threatening, menacing, offensive, defamatory, abusive, in breach of confidence, in breach of any intellectual property right (including copyright) or otherwise violates any applicable law or regulation or code, or which makes excessive demands for bandwidth or contains any virus or which may otherwise impair or harm this forum or any third party computer system.

b -
In view of the vast flow of information transmitted via this forum each day, it is not technically possible nor economically feasible to monitor all materials that pass through the system (including, without limitation, all views and/or comments therein). Hawkwind believes that the onus for ensuring that material presented on the Internet is legal rests with the original content provider, and we will not limit access to material unless notified that it is illegal. Notwithstanding, Hawkwind shall have the right to remove any items it believes may be illegal.


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 880 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 ... 59  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:02 pm
Posts: 940
Let try again to explain this opinion stuff how it works here and in most of the europe. Things here are like this: What will your opinion be in your head and in your house is your problem. But on street its not only your probem anymore. So except this insignia thing and photos, even if you saying out loud yelling on street like 'heil hitler', ' long live nazis's or something like that it is against the law like I explained above.

Thats why I said I was shocked, because in US you said you can not only say those things, you can march. I hope its now more clear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 4431
Maybe explain the loving Lemmy's nazi insignia?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:02 pm
Posts: 940
Lemmy wasnt nazi, and he knows very well what this insignia is. Here you have people who collect nazi weapons from war and uniforms. Lemmy collected too, thats here like collecting historical stuff, its not against the law, but it would be if you go with that on street in uniform or wave with flag. I also hd pistol Walther p38, my grand father took it from german, and I am not nazi. I sold that to one collector of nazi weapons. And he is not nazi too, he collect soviet weapons and britich and american too, likes history. Like Lemmy. He said many times that nazis were evil, thats why they were interesting to him because I like ww2 study too all my life, as LEmmy said you can learn about people a lot study ww2 stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5211
Duplicate post

_________________
Image


Last edited by vikmarlo on Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5211
black adder wrote:Vikmarlo,

Opinion can be criminal act. Thats not tyrrany, its defens from tyranny.
Here german law, and we have somthing like that too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgese ... ection_86a

It means: Every insignia of nazi is insult for victims, call for hatred, call for genocide, call for third reich, call for kill. This opinion insults not only victim it is threat to society. Something like that is in our law and neighbour countries.

Nazi, kkk, opinions are sick, they are against humanity, and thats why they are against the law.

There you go if you want our law (we are in EU), or some european too. Thats why I cant understand your arguments. For you its freedom of the speech, to me its tolerate of nazi opinion, for me those cant have right in this country for opinion. For us who is against that supporting nazis in some way, not politicly but as opinion. I cant explain to you better than this. Its not my country only, many european countrie have this law. Poland except this one have for communists too, but they are only one in EU about that. Hungary tried but failed. But nazi stuff is clear situation. In europe we didnt have kkk stuff so there is not specific law but organisations who spread hatred are against the law, their opinion is hatred.

I cant explain better
.

...end quote...

I'm glad you mentioned this point, Black Adder ~ it helps to differentiate the social mores of two formerly-opposed nations in the very war which best typifies what we are talking about.

Two of my uncles fought against nazi Germany ~ one never came back. I would like nothing more than to see hatred and the groups which promote it 'just go away' ~ what a happy day that would be!

But, I would not wish to see that occur at the expense of a legal precedent that could someday be used to imprison people for disagreeing with their government, because a future party in power might be against human rights.

Example: in the Wiki article you linked above, under the section,

§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations :

Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda:

1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party;

4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.


This is an arbitrary matter. Under this very law, the Court holds the power to decide what is unconstitutional for their purposes.
Now, I am not familiar with the German Constitution, though I do not doubt [that it] differs from the American one on this respect; nevertheless the legal precedent on which it stands gives power to any future governing body to interpret this according to what it deems unconstitutional. The power (if I understand the wording ) rests with the governing body and not the constitutional document, whatever that document might contain.

under section 4, it does not specify what "aims" to which it applies, only those of "a former national socialist organisation" ~ that would give the law power to prosecute socialists. Whether it is being interpreted that way currently or not, it nevertheless can be applied in that way to jail proponents of socialism.

Similarly, the law (as I understand it) assumes the swastika to be a symbol which calls for, or promotes the idea of, hatred.

Does it ? Who says ?

It so happens, the swastika has been around since ancient times; it is an auspicious symbol of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.

Are they to jail practitioners of said religions for displaying this?

Perhaps not today. But under those laws they could be jailed, if the next administrative and legislative bodies of government there happened to comprise a majority of people who disliked Buddhists, of those, individuals who might be in petition of government for any number of causes of dissent.

Hate stems from misdirected anger, a natural human emotion. It is already possible through science to detect people's emotions through brain-wave activity sensors. God help us all if legislation starts to go down on the books that would outlaw certain thoughts and emotions.

It will probably come to pass ~ and I can guarantee the justification for this legislation will be "in the interest of protecting peace-loving society against those who harbor negative feelings toward others which could lead to committing hate-crimes".

When it comes to that, then I am afraid everyone but the tyrants and dictators are fucked.

Another point worth mentioning, is one of socialism. Many Americans will never admit it, but things like public education and public libraries are socialist institutions. Socialism has nearly come to be perceived by many there as synonymous with communism ~ an even dirtier word. Even now the word Democrat is being transformed in its meaning to something like unpatriotic, if you listen to many of the radical voices that were heard during the last election.

_________________
Image


Last edited by vikmarlo on Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:24 pm
Posts: 1889
Location: Lost beyond the Black Hole's apparent horizon - Yorkshire
Every insignia of nazi is insult for victims

Debatable - In the ancient Indian language of Sanskrit, swastika means "well-being". The symbol has been used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains for millennia and is commonly assumed to be an Indian sign.
As always some idiot hijacked something good and perverted it for their twisted ideals.

_________________
It's the rest of the world who are odd - I'm normal...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 12:11 pm
Posts: 430
HairyGT4 wrote:
Every insignia of nazi is insult for victims

Debatable - In the ancient Indian language of Sanskrit, swastika means "well-being". The symbol has been used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains for millennia and is commonly assumed to be an Indian sign.
As always some idiot hijacked something good and perverted it for their twisted ideals.


Exactly, hoped someone might bite after I mentioned last time I saw a Swastika was on on a Thai Girl, Didn't the EU Hialarchy try and ban the symbol across all states circa 2007. Quite a few religions got rightly niffed and the legislation was not passed ?


Attachments:
xp1-2.jpg
xp1-2.jpg [ 129.17 KiB | Viewed 413 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Ontario Canada
Take a swastika away from a misanthrope and what do you have left?
Stripping peoples symbols doesn't change their belief's.

_________________
The wolf in me would eat the man..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 4431
didn't know that about the swastika - interesting and I continue to learn - getting back to the great Lem - I've got a hangover from hell! - might just dabble in his recipes to not be ' moving like a parallogram'! - haha!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5211
Hair of the dog that bit you, my good man !

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 4431
indeed Vik! - it's been done before! - chopping garlic, onions and sage at the moment with a can of Guinness in the vicinity! - happy birthday Lemmy!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:24 pm
Posts: 1889
Location: Lost beyond the Black Hole's apparent horizon - Yorkshire
Likewise engaged in the kitchen, two flavours of stuffing, leek and courgette bake with mature cheese sauce, pigs in blankets, ale in hand, cup of char, chocolates. It's good here. Oh, and a bottle of cask strength single malt...

_________________
It's the rest of the world who are odd - I'm normal...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5211
a condemnatory report from UPI :


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Voices/2017 ... 1488887721

from Struan Stevenson
March 6, 2017





March 6 (UPI) -- This week, together with International Committee in Search of Justice, we are publishing an extensive study about the role of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps in the Middle East and its meddling and fomenting of terrorism in 14 Muslim countries in the region.

Following the Obama tenure that allowed Iran to tear the Middle East apart and engulf it in flames, Tehran is now faced with a new administration in the White House that has markedly different intentions. The new U.S. administration is floating a proposal to blacklist the IRGC as a foreign terrorist organization.

And suddenly we are witnessing a shrill chorus from known members of the pro-Iranian appeasement lobby predicting doom and disaster if we blacklist the IRGC. Their main argument seems to involve the possibility of the IRGC taking revenge by targeting U.S. interests and allies across the Middle East. In other words, they may commit terrorist attacks in the West so we'd better not list them as terrorists! What strangely seems to have been forgotten is the fact that the IRGC has for decades been carrying out terrorist attacks across the Middle East, including Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon.

The IRGC and the Quds Force, their organization responsible for extraterritorial operations, are behind most of the brutal Shi'ite militias rampaging through the predominantly Sunni provinces of Iraq, massacring families and leveling cities in the name of the war against the Islamic State. It is a great irony that Iran exploited the IS campaign as an opportunity to carry out their genocidal crusade against the Sunnis, at the same time fooling former U.S. President Barack Obama into regarding Iran as an ally, even coaxing the United States into providing vital air support. There are even disturbing reports that the Iranian-backed Popular Mobilization Units, dubbed as Iraq's version of the IRGC, have been surreptitiously providing arms to IS.

Over the past six years, the world has witnessed in horror how the Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad has massacred his own people, while enjoying unlimited financial and military support from Iran. It was the Iranian regime's backing for Assad and for the former Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, two corrupt dictators who repressed their own people and particularly the Sunni communities in those two countries, that resulted in the rise of IS in the region. Thanks to Tehran, IS grew and became a threat to the whole world, creating the largest refugee crisis in modern history.

The Iranian regime, its IRGC and Basij militias have attacked America and its allies for many decades. The Iranian mullahs began targeting U.S. interests in 1980, less than a year after they came to power, in 1980 by seizing 52 Americans in the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and holding them hostage for 444 days. While it is common knowledge that Lebanese Hezbollah is funded by Tehran, it should also be remembered that in 1983 Iran and Hezbollah masterminded and carried out a truck bombing that killed 240 U.S. Marines in Lebanon; the Islamic jihadist car bomb attack destroyed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, leaving 63 dead, 17 of whom were Americans. The attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait City left six dead, 13 days before Christmas that same year. In September 1984, Lebanese Hezbollah again staged a car bombing against the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, this time killing 24 people.

In June 1996, the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia were the target of a massive truck bombing using 5,000 pounds of explosives. Nineteen U.S. airmen lost their lives and many more were injured. Former FBI director Louis Freeh has repeatedly stated that investigations show Iran was behind this attack. In June 1998, Lebanese Hezbollah again attacked the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, this time firing rocket-propelled grenades. Fortunately, no one was killed.

Iran's campaign in Afghanistan and Iraq is well documented. Rep. Ed Royce, chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a recent hearing that Iran is responsible for the death of more than 500 Americans. U.S. Vice President Mike Pence has stated that Iran is the main state sponsor of international terror.

Even Obama's controversial deal that many boasted would tame Iran's nuclear program has brought no such change. Iran's Jan. 29 ballistic missile test was a flagrant violation of the deal, prompting the Trump administration to reintroduce a series of tough sanctions, signaling an immediate step-change with Obama's appeasement policy. It now emerges, according to a shocking report first made public by The Washington Free Beacon, that the Obama administration gave unprecedented access to the White House for teams of known pro-Iran lobbyists.

For far too long, Iran and the IRGC have taken advantage of the West's appeasement policy, not only engulfing the entire Middle East in flames, but also oppressing the Iranian people through atrocious and repeated human rights violations. Blacklisting the IRGC is long overdue and will be a first and necessary step in actually curbing Iranian atrocities.

Struan Stevenson is president of the European Iraqi Freedom Association and a lecturer on Middle East policy. He has served as a member of the European Parliament representing Scotland (1999-2014), president of the Parliament's Delegation for Relations with Iraq (2009-14) and chairman of Friends of a Free Iran Intergroup (2004-14).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 4431
indeed Vik - 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WWIII
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5211
Arthur Neville Chamberlain tried his method of appeasement with the Nazis ~ I dont think that turned out too well for his country...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 880 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 ... 59  Next

Board index » Test category 1 » Any Other Business


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Donate Now
Donate Now

suspicion-preferred