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 Post subject: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:04 am 
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this from BBC :

probably not much appetite for this, but one can only hope that will change as more and more people worldwide begin to see the potential threat to everyone from this sort of thing going unchecked, and allowed to persist.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39566136



Ms Poplevskaya told the BBC that victims - either gay or just perceived as gay - are being held at a detention centre.....

....Kadyrov spokesman Alvi Karimov denied the alleged persecution.
"You can't detain and repress people who simply don't exist in the republic," he said.




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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:11 am 
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So either there's an entire country of millions of people which is the only one there's ever been where the entire population is absolutely 110% heterosexual... Or someone's bullshitting. I mean, why don't they just say "yes, we persecute people for really stupid reasons"? Otherwise someone might get the idea these "moral guardians of their nation" are ashamed of what they're doing.

And so they should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:30 am 
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I had (when first reading that ) thought of Sadam Hussein's having received 100% of the vote in Iraq's so-called "election" ~ a statistic I don't doubt; guessing that anyone who might've dared to not vote for him would most likely never be seen or heard from again.

A similar thing is going on in Pakistan ~ to even be accused of blasphemy (against Islam)
~ forget about fair trial or burden of proof ~ the mere suggestion will get a person summarily put to death, if not by official security forces then by vigilantes who congregate and rally with impunity

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:29 pm 
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"Probably not much appetite for this" - I'm curious as to what you mean, vik?

Unfortunately, stuff like this report is all to common around the world. And don't forget, here in the UK it was only a little over 50 years ago that Alan Turing was forced to 'choose' between imprisonment or 'chemical castration' with DES, committing suicide a couple of years later. It was 2013 before he received an official pardon.




I think the real task is for each of us to identify and understand our own prejudices (we all suffer from them to a greater or lesser degree depending on our formative experiences and upbringing) and work to eradicate them.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:15 pm 
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alway's felt sorry for oscar wilde - despite his primal instinct's and intransigence's


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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:02 pm 
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What I meant by that statement, Steam, is that I had doubts about the potential for this thread ~ not that I imagine folks here don't care, per se ~ just that I thought it might not be a popular topic for discussion here.

I agree with your statement that each of us needs to identify our own prejudices, in so much as it is the starting point to fighting prejudice in society. At the same time, open discussion and the 'calling-out' of serious human rights violations must not be forgone in lieu of self-perfection; if that were the strict criterion, then there would never be activism on any problematic issue.

Awareness is the only real tool with which people can solve society's most serious crises; especially the ones that start as isolated crimes targeting those ostracised individuals against whom hatred is perpetrated.

The more discussion which takes place in the effort to counter hate-speech/hate crime, the better off we all will be in the long run, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Brown Dawn wrote:alway's felt sorry for oscar wilde - despite his primal instinct's and intransigence's

...end quote...


to whatever position Wilde's intransigence may have been apropos,
my heart goes out to anyone who falls victim to the plight of human ignorance; when it happens to the least one among us, it happens to us all.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:45 pm 
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indeed Vik and agree - not sure which cloak i bear this evening - mr hyde lurk's - understanding oneself is an ongoing complex conundrum! - ain't no answer's - only question's!


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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:43 am 
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I disagree, in as much as there are answers; problem is, when the answers turn long-perpetuated myths upside down people don't want to evolve in their knowledge and awareness, they just want to cling to superstition. A strict adherence to the essentials or basics of some ideology, whether religious, political, or philosophical (e.g.fundamentalism ) actually perpetuates its own advocacy; the clinging to an immovable, entrenched position that defies reasoned argument or contradictory evidence.  

a relevant example:

The concept of collective-guilt as a doctrinal design of social control with roots in historic antiquity (the effects of which are still directly prevalent today) is the Tanakh ~ the canonical collection of Jewish texts.  Its constructs, namely collective-blame and collective-punishment ,  are the fundamentals of a mindset; a mental-inertia, or "herd-mentality", found to be promulgated further yet througout the Christian Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament.  Such designs trace back to the early architects of authoritarianism and a method of thought-control with the ultimate aim of establishing a social paradigm.  Alternately refered to as collective-responsibilty, it is often used as a disciplinary measure in closed institutions, such as boarding schools, wherein an entire classroom of pupils is punished for the infraction of a single troublemaker.  Military units, penitentiaries, and psychiatric institutions commonly and sometimes cruely employ the measure.  The effectiveness and severeity of collective-punishment exist in a ratio of interrelational apportion by measure, while the method itself most commonly breeds distrust and isolation among constituents under its discipline, and is almost always a sign of authoritarian rule in the institution, home society, or general domain in which it is disseminated.

The practice of collective-punishment itself goes as far back in history as authoritarian rulers can be notably traced;  someone breaks the law but that person remains unknown to those holding jurisdiction of punishment. Rather than undertake an investigative effort to discover the identity of the perpetrator(s) ~ whether out of haste, frustration, or disdain ~ as well as a need to keep a sense of law and order within the community and the  appearance of its rulers' effectiveness, the entire community is punished in order to insure that the unknown offender receives punishment.
At the same time the consequence reinforces selfless deterrent. This method in turn reinforces the idea of collective-guilt.

The Greek principle of 'ancestral fault'  codified by Plutarch in the De Sera numinus vindicta , is fully exploited by Grotious in his long discussion of collective responsibility.

In ethics, both methodological individualists and normative individualists question the validity of collective responsibility.  The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy describes
methodological individualism's challenge to the very possibility of associating moral agency with groups as distinct from their individual members, and the normative individualist arguement, which holds that collective responsibility violates principles of individual responsibility and fairness.

The exponential augmentation of the overall mindset of collective-guilt, especially when combined with xenophobia and/or psychological projection (a.k.a. blame-shifting),  leads to racial and ethnic unfairness [perceived\actual] disparity, inequity, prejudice, bigotry, intolerance, and hatred.  In some cases, augmentation leads to misanthropy.


there will always be questions; [ the idea that ] there are no answers is a deliberately-planted misconception.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:36 am 
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must admit - i don't feel part of a collective anything - except family i guess - being a solo merchant has proven to be difficult at times because of society and it's ignorance - question 'how long is a piece of string' - answer 'twice the length it is from the middle to one end' - follow one's own ideals and philosophies (without hurting other people) i would say


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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:31 am 
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a wise path indeed, Brown Dawn

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:36 am 
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indeed Vik - staying on it is the hard part!


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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Interesting subject here going on. One close to my own heart.
I cannot or do not want to disagree with any of those above written works.
Of course there are always answers, there are a plethora of them. Be they wrong, correct & in some cases both.
However; Seeing humanity as a failed race, I still cannot see any ONE, sole answer.
Not something to lose sleep over either way, cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:06 pm 
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thats an excellent point, Smugdruggler ~ and I see that as something of an answer in itself: that there is no single answer; that being at least part of the reason as to why the race of humans largely fails ~ the tendency of fundamentalist thinking to try and insist that there is one answer when in fact there can never be.

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 Post subject: Re: Superstition, Credulity, & Witch Hunts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:29 pm 
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oh for the bradan feasa!


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