Hawkwindforum

mike coleman wrote:

jamun wrote:Never trust a seller who puts nonsense like this in his listing! LOL. (I am not a Lending Library !!!)

Due to BOOTLEGGING

I cannot accept returns or refunds on BBC Transcription Discs.

(I am not a Lending Library !!!)

I just want sellers to stop speaking about vinyl '"lustre" and "sheen" and I REALLY would appreciate all the A1 matrix crap to terminate when that is actually saying "I am the common as weeds version" on much of the items I am looking at, anyway

I personally have never given a toss about matrix numbers and I have never examined them in the dead wax. Its a pointless exercise IMO. Whats it going to tell you? A1/B1 "LOW MATRIX" numbers etc! Also I too hate the Sheen talk, "Lovely vinyl Sheen." And I really despise "Grading: Vinyl.. EX+++++++ On inspection" Eg the seller has never played it and crackles like bacon frying. As we both know, vinyl polishing can get addictive, but I would say the Hawkwind Transcription disc had a tad over polish IMO:) He must be a better polisher than me, because NO vinyl is that sheeny, or at least non of my polishes have resulted in such a mirror sheen finish.

And then it got me thinking.............................

Whats to stop someone approaching a record pressing plant in the Czech Republic.

Eg

http://www.gzvinyl.com/vinyl-27/products-506/

They take a CD and out pops a vinyl record. Minimum 250 copies. Since the BBC transcription discs are all available on CD have no covers and label scans are available. The task of reproduction would be extremely simple.

Just a thought and why I would never pay 3000 euro for a record......

jamun wrote:[I personally have never given a toss about matrix numbers and I have never examined them in the dead wax. Its a pointless exercise IMO. Whats it going to tell you? A1/B1 "LOW MATRIX" numbers etc! Also I too hate the Sheen talk, "Lovely vinyl Sheen." And I really despise "Grading: Vinyl.. EX+++++++ On inspection" Eg the seller has never played it and crackles like bacon frying. As we both know, vinyl polishing can get addictive, but I would say the Hawkwind Transcription disc had a tad over polish IMO:) He must be a better polisher than me, because NO vinyl is that sheeny, or at least non of my polishes have resulted in such a mirror sheen finish.

And then it got me thinking.............................

Whats to stop someone approaching a record pressing plant in the Czech Republic.

Eg

http://www.gzvinyl.com/vinyl-27/products-506/

They take a CD and out pops a vinyl record. Minimum 250 copies. Since the BBC transcription discs are all available on CD have no covers and label scans are available. The task of reproduction would be extremely simple.

Just a thought and why I would never pay 3000 euro for a record......

Hi again, hopefully this forum is not overly annoyed if I carry on here about the vinyl. Interesting as expected Jamun, as "all" brings something to "the table". First of all, about the "lustre" and "sheen", it was actually my local friend here that pointed out how silly that is, because from our experience playing a record does not make a "dull appearance" (opening up this subject to debate, if there is any). It's just a load of crap. (our opinion). Funny, I had not looked at the "shine" of that record on the picture. Nor have I EVER!!! INETERESTING!!! All I am concerned about is hairlines and use or bad stylus damage.
Next the matrixes- I had never met another Hawkwind collector who cared about them until a year or so ago, and I have only done a bit of it again by happenstance......For me it was mostly about the fact that there was never anything I'd rather do than buy the same album again for about the 27th time!!!
As for bootlegging, in my own experience it is not THAT common with Hawkwind, meaning "pirated' items that claim to be genuine, but I am suspect of some white label tests that have appeared. Now (trying my best to cover Dave and Kris's eye, and hoping it's OK for me to say this opinion), Hawkwind is such a mighty thing, that you reallly couldn't get totally ripped off on anything, it's just we (myself especially) do not want to disobey headquarters and stick money in the wrong place, because I am happy with my 'station' in life and I am happy to have a Captain!!! Also, if somebody duplicates an item, I bet big money I can tell!!!! they just don't make 'em exact now as was in, say, 1972

oops, not to forget Opa-Loka, making 2 other matrix people known to me, but I did not know he was doing that until I came on here and read about his HW "debut LP" achievements and his other things that made me go "oh my god" just like he did 8 or 9 years previous....
There is a record store here called "Forever Young" and the owner (Dave), has (apparently) one of _the_ if not _the _the_ most complete Bob Dylan collections to be had, and he has had a book published, for which he was paid, and apprently this matrix stuff is a big deal at the end of the day, whatever it actually is......and before somebody tries to make it simple let me state that I have Hawkwind records with the same matix on one side but differing on another.....

There is a big difference between collecting Dylan, the Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc and Hawkwind. I know this from the demographics of spacerocktrading. I know the ages, the places people live, etc of the collectors. They are all mid forty, male, primarily in Europe, some in America, a couple in Asia and one in Iran!!! I bet I could I could count on my eleven fingers the people around the world who are real Hawkwind collectors. As such there is simply no market for Hawkwind as an investment and not enough information to catalogue matrix numbers etc. We know what the rarest of the rare Hawkwind are. I wouldn't even class that transcription disc as rare or valuable. Thats a couple of hundred bucks in a real auction. The blue label the same, the sonic attack in the bag a tad less, etc etc etc. If one of us, sobbering thought, was to die. I 100% know that in an auction (a real record auction) that our entire Hawkwind catalog would go for less than that one Zep (), Radio variant, that your mate Jeff at record has, Physical Graffiti,

http://www.recordmecca.com/view_item.aspx?id=857

Sold for 5000 US.

Now when you have thousands collecting bands, you can beat your brother, with a low matrix number and command a price. But when there is ten people in the world..............???????????????? Sorry your losing............

I collect for fun. But I couldnt give a stuff about anal matrix numbers.

jamun wrote:There is a big difference between collecting Dylan, the Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc and Hawkwind. I know this from the demographics of spacerocktrading. I know the ages, the places people live, etc of the collectors. They are all mid forty, male, primarily in Europe, some in America, a couple in Asia and one in Iran!!! I bet I could I could count on my eleven fingers the people around the world who are real Hawkwind collectors. As such there is simply no market for Hawkwind as an investment and not enough information to catalogue matrix numbers etc. We know what the rarest of the rare Hawkwind are. I wouldn't even class that transcription disc as rare or valuable. Thats a couple of hundred bucks in a real auction. The blue label the same, the sonic attack in the bag a tad less, etc etc etc. If one of us, sobbering thought, was to die. I 100% know that in an auction (a real record auction) that our entire Hawkwind catalog would go for less than that one Zep (), Radio variant, that your mate Jeff at record has, Physical Graffiti,

http://www.recordmecca.com/view_item.aspx?id=857

Sold for 5000 US.

Now when you have thousands collecting bands, you can beat your brother, with a low matrix number and command a price. But when there is ten people in the world..............???????????????? Sorry your losing............

I collect for fun. But I couldnt give a stuff about anal matrix numbers.

Been half waiting for Jamun's reply, but it wasn't exactly what I had expected, and flicking his semi-insulting comment off my shoulder with a grin, as if I had found my own bugar there, when I thought I'd been rid of it.....also realising he may have felt insulted in some way when that was NOT my intention, let me add-
Now wait a minute, I could have predicted this opinion and see it that way myself at first and then I take it beyond....who gives a rat's ass about Dylan, Hendrix, the Beatles, or Keith Partridge, (overstating the case) when a band like Hawkwind stomped all over their ass and handed them a shovel to dig their own grave.......No matter to me that HW audience is predminantly male. though it isn't TOTALLY male, and the ladies, women and hippy who doesn't like being called a lady are all pretty great chicks in my book. If you go look at Record Collectors of years past, and now I am sure, you'll see how high up Hawkwind is on the collector scale, not because of popularity, but because of insane chaotic stuff to collect and the rarity of it!!~! I know some of you run the world from your mega-towers, but my first BBC disc cost $465.00 in 1994 (the one I still retain), and the other 2 over a thousand likely before the year 2000, so I think you're batting a little low there, And one of the singles I am after again, I am pretty sure I battled Koh and won, way back when, which went for about $750.00....so, maybe not Beatles money, but not a handout either......so PLEASE, do not care about matrix, I certainly do not want you to, just like I'd prefer if I was the ONLY Hawkwind vinyl collector. I am usually at odds with human thinking, and I pray to god it stays that way or my purpose on earth is complete.
next, the polishing, I was thinking the only thing that used to actually shine them, was the protective treatment I tried and did not like. Of course CLEANING them makes them clear up again, so this is why I have always been interested in your use of the word "polish".....no offence taken....so far!!!

Oh wait, one more thing. I have also thought that Hawkwind people often do not HAVE big bucks to chunk on records, for various reasons, some of those being the need to travel a lot. But I see a pattern I believe true in some cases.....jealousy over expensive items causing shouts of "beware bootlegs"
Just a theory and I am gifted at psychology, over and over, I am correct. Not accusing you of this by any means, I tend to think you are newer at the expensive stuff.....only you will know if this applies to you, and I need not know!!!

Oh the Physical Grafitti sold huh, I sent an old friend who is doing Zep right now a link to that

And you know, they say there is nothing "new" under "the sun".....the SR trading forum was predated by my own by about a decade (or more). I know I finally obliterated the Atomgods forum a few years ago, but I bet "Opa Loka" sits drifting still, floating in dormant Yahoo space.....I know Wilfried tended to it after I had to go away, but I think it is still there and I know the Opa-Loka member here takes that handle from our mutual love of that track, and he was a main contributor to it...hmmm
Maybe I should ring up Germany and start up the engine if only for a day, and nostalgia!!!!!

mike coleman wrote:Oh wait, one more thing. I have also thought that Hawkwind people often do not HAVE big bucks to chunk on records, for various reasons, some of those being the need to travel a lot. But I see a pattern I believe true in some cases.....jealousy over expensive items causing shouts of "beware bootlegs"
Just a theory and I am gifted at psychology, over and over, I am correct. Not accusing you of this by any means, I tend to think you are newer at the expensive stuff.....only you will know if this applies to you, and I need not know!!!

You got it the wrong way around. I was thinking that for a 250 run in a Czech republic factory, a Czech friend of mine, who once gave me a perfect copy of a ten packet carton of Marlboro Lights, could for a 1000 euro make perfect clones of that transcription disc. I showed him the ebay price, and his communistic eyes lit up with gleeming $$ $$'s. But then when I told him, that he could probably only sell two, as the eleven secret chiefs already have copies, then he dumped that idea and bought an Audi R8 instead. All true.

jamun wrote:[You got it the wrong way around. I was thinking that for a 250 run in a Czech republic factory, a Czech friend of mine, who once gave me a perfect copy of a ten packet carton of Marlboro Lights, could for a 1000 euro make perfect clones of that transcription disc. I showed him the ebay price, and his communistic eyes lit up with gleeming $$ $$'s. But then when I told him, that he could probably only sell two, as the eleven secret chiefs already have copies, then he dumped that idea and bought an Audi R8 instead. All true.

Ok first of all, I am very concerned at withholding my (admittedly unpopular) track record of basically NEVER being wrong. In my later years it becomes painfully (and joyfully) obvious I am not homo- sapiens. If only Dave holds the rights to this music now, I would seriously consider throwing my brain into cosmic overdrive, and spinning this into everyone's favor.....Limited record production certainly requires an investment, but I am sure there is a LOAD of fans who would enjoy a vinyl copy of this, especially with some artwork (bell, lightbulb), and this could happen without needing to lie to anyone, while the band gets the share they demand for it to happen, and I get to examine the repo and provide you my list of 26 things glaringly telling me it is a new item forgery, upon only having it for 3 minutes.
OH if ONLY this could really happen
and if I somehow lose the wager,,,,,I'll cough something up.......

and, there are more Hawkwind collectors with money out there than you think.....those BBC LP's sell,,,,
It is simply that the others do not go for so many copies of "the same thing"

mike coleman wrote:

jamun wrote:[You got it the wrong way around. I was thinking that for a 250 run in a Czech republic factory, a Czech friend of mine, who once gave me a perfect copy of a ten packet carton of Marlboro Lights, could for a 1000 euro make perfect clones of that transcription disc. I showed him the ebay price, and his communistic eyes lit up with gleeming $$ $$'s. But then when I told him, that he could probably only sell two, as the eleven secret chiefs already have copies, then he dumped that idea and bought an Audi R8 instead. All true.

Ok first of all, I am very concerned at withholding my (admittedly unpopular) track record of basically NEVER being wrong. In my later years it becomes painfully (and joyfully) obvious I am not homo- sapiens. If only Dave holds the rights to this music now, I would seriously consider throwing my brain into cosmic overdrive, and spinning this into everyone's favor.....Limited record production certainly requires an investment, but I am sure there is a LOAD of fans who would enjoy a vinyl copy of this, especially with some artwork (bell, lightbulb), and this could happen without needing to lie to anyone, while the band gets the share they demand for it to happen, and I get to examine the repo and provide you my list of 26 things glaringly telling me it is a new item forgery, upon only having it for 3 minutes.
OH if ONLY this could really happen
and if I somehow lose the wager,,,,,I'll cough something up.......

Enough! PM sent.

The current "going rate" for that BBC thing is a bit under £1000 (US $1500), isn't it? The last one went for around £850, as I recall.

There's no way I'd buy Hawkwind stuff as an investment for my old age. Beatles, maybe. But I'm sorry to say I wouldn't risk trying to "corner the market" with Hawkwind matrix rarities

graham wrote:The current "going rate" for that BBC thing is a bit under £1000 (US $1500), isn't it? The last one went for around £850, as I recall.

There's no way I'd buy Hawkwind stuff as an investment for my old age. Beatles, maybe. But I'm sorry to say I wouldn't risk trying to "corner the market" with Hawkwind matrix rarities

You know really, and thank you for providing me another in, I'd like to say that I obviously love my total BS, but with grains of truth mixed in. It may sound egomaniacal, if that is even a word, (of me), but I feel like for some years it was me setting a lot of the values on rare items, or at least I played my part.
None of this has ever been about a nest-egg for me, only a passion for what I consider to be the "coolest band this earth has ever had upon it"
One day some of this stuff will get catalogued, and people will come together to do so. Doesn't mater to us about money, just that Hawkwind gave us a 'part of ourseleves' that we needed, and something to do.
Also, a crazy friend in New York and I were joking on the phone about a year ago, that if Jimi Hendrix was suddenly back from the dead and he and Hawkwind were gigging the same night at different clubs across the street, we'd both be at the Hawkwind gig. But I was just now thinking how I might walk into the Hendrix show and find him there and say "HAHAHAAHAHAA"....and yes, I would say you are dead right about the BBC value, unless the CD has brought it down.

Record collectors!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR67RawozQ