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 Post subject: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:05 am 
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Posts: 620
For all the time i've ran this forum i have tried to keep it fair and open and basically "allow" free speech and in the vast majority of cases this is what has happened.

However after much soul searching i feel i do need to address the issue of discussing shall we say extreme political views on this forum.

First and foremost remember this is a forum to discuss people's appreciation of Hawkwind, that said i fully understand that it's not all one way traffic, of course some will have opposing views on different matters and not every comment is of a positive nature, but that's life, i'm a firm believe that you can't please all the people all the time and especially not over 41 years so it's can't be a full time love in!

When i set up the any other business section i did it so non related Hawkwind matters could be discussed, to that end i was envisaging plenty of non Hawkwind music and some shall we say seasonal topics - more football chat during a major tournament and dare i say it some politics talk running up to a general election, and for the most part that's what we get.

What however is bothering me, putting me in an awkward situation and frankly getting on my nerves is topics such as the recent one concerning and ex member and his own personal views. the first reply summed it up perfectly with words to the effect of "what's said on facebook should stay on facebook".

At this point may i go on the record to say i dispise the BNP and all it stands for, however myself and the rest of the population are lucky to live in a democratic society where everyone is entitled to an opinion even if that opinion is odious to myself or others - thats life!

So at this point i would ask that the following is adhered to by all forum members

a - Moving forward no futher such topics are to be posted, by that i mean opinions accusations posted elsewhere and then brought to this forum for the sole purpose of stirring up the brown stuff, i know this is a bit general in it's outline but the vast majority of you are sensible people who will understand what i am saying here. If they are posted they will be removed

b - In no circumstances intimate people's affiliations to political parties unless you have there specific permission from that person, that would be in the form of a PM sent to me from that persons account saying they are happy for another to disclose this information, a bit extreme and in my opinion completely over the top but hey ho

Failure to adhere to this willl result in banning from this forum, simple as that.

And yes i do believe that what's said on Facebook should stay on Facebook

Hope that all makes sense

regards

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:09 am
Posts: 114
hear hear!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:59 pm
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Yes, it makes sense. Well said & I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 95
i disagree


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:45 am
Posts: 2047
Location: Walking in the sunshine in the middle of the night
I agree with having guidelines - and I appreciate how difficult a moderator's job can be, having been one myself elsewhere.

Some comments on similar issues on other sites may be relevant:

I think the off topic section is the most difficult area of any forum. In some ways it's also the most important, because it says so much about a forum and the people on it.

I've seen forums that have removed the off topic section entirely because it was too much hard work. The result was an imbalance in the rest of the forum because people couldn't talk normally as balanced individuals. The end result was that the site became populated exclusively with obsessives, and the normal people either moved elsewhere or didn't join when they visited the site and found it exclusively focused on one thing.

I've also seen forums that kept the off topic section but banned the discussion of religion or politics. That kept things apparently harmonious, but deceptively so. There were people on those forums who were politically and religiously extreme, and no one knew because they were never in a position where they'd give themselves away. That might not be so bad on a Hawkwind site, but on sites aimed at younger people it was downright dangerous.

The lesson, it seems to me, is that an off topic section can be hard work for a moderator, but it's necessary, and it's even necessary to allow enough rope for people to hang themselves. Personally I'd much rather know what kind of people I'm chatting with than to have a false impression of decency from them.

Maybe this site needs one or two more moderators to ease the burden? I think Dave's doing an excellent job, especially by exercising restraint and not jumping in at a moment's notice, but it's a lot to ask of one person - unless there are other moderators I don't know about. Which raises another point. I've found it's sometimes good to have a couple of people who are low profile. I'm not sure if that would be necessary on this forum, but it's worth mentioning anyway. I was an anonymous moderator on a site where there were a lot of young people and where the artist in question was sometimes the target of people with dubious motives (i.e. perverts). It helped that site to have a couple of people who could take charge gently without drawing attention to their moderator status, and it was also handy to have people in different time zones who could act by discreetly deleting dubious posts or else post as `site moderator' without a name attached.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
Hawkwind have, of course, set us all a fine example in how to get along and not bitch about people :roll:

So I'm gonna have a bitch now! :twisted:

How can the wounds of the past ever be healed if people cannot speak their mind? I bet there are lots of ex-Hawkwind members who would love to participate in this forum but don't bother because they know they wouldn't last 5 minutes without getting banned.

Of course there are some ugly realities to face, but better that than Hawkwind culture ending it's days with it's head in the sand. If I were the forum moderator I would let it all grow completely wild and woolly, keeping the pruning to an absolute minimum. I think that would be a much better testament to 40 years of chaos. More fora please..

I was just having a look at Mike Moorcock's Miscellany forums and it's a wonderful, chaotic, sprawling mess. Something more like that would be perfect for Hawkwind. At the moment there simply isn't enough space for all the different kinds of Hawkwind fans. This forum is just too small for something as complicated as Hawkwind. I think that's the real problem with this forum, it's just too obsessively neat and compact..

Where is the seperate section for all of Hawkwind's new-age travellers, the Stonehenge connection?

Where is the heavy metal section where people can throw bottles of piss at each other?

Where are all the sections devoted to all the complex history of Hawkwind family tree?

Where is the paranoid conspiracy section for all the Calvertesque rants and ramblings?

I could go on and on and on, but I think you get my point. I really don't think that this forum does the Hawkwind legacy justice. Sorry to have to say that..


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 95
I totally agree ......this time


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:49 am 
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Location: UK - N Devon
I'll sign up to that, davemod.

I'm all for political "blood on the walls" but of course that doesn't need to be in a HW forum... it can stay on facebook or wordforge or places like that.

The one exception I'd ask for is if such topics emerge out of genuine Hawkwind-related discussion. I'm thinking here of the Enoch Powell discussion that bobbled up, over a year ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Posts: 1640
On the threads that get closed it always seems really be about the same old Hawkwind inner rivalries, and not about actual politics at all. But if someone, in this case mister headcorn (bless your little cotton socks), wants to stand on a soapbox, then let them get it out of their system. The reason forums have developed this terminology of flamers and trolls and so on, is so that we know when to ignore what someone says, not censor and ban them.

I still think that the problem is that this place is too small. We just have a small number of categories, each stacked up like a highrise. It needs to grow sideways like a festival. What Hawkwind fan would want to live in place like this?

It's certainly very revealing that of all the past and present members of Hawkwind (the people's band), virtually none of them ever post here. Apparently the're on Facebook now though. Choose your masks..

Mostly I'd rather just turn off my computer and find something else to do. Still, at the end of the day I'm sure I'll always return here on and off. Hawkwind heads are good people, all told, I've not met a bad one yet..


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:11 pm
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Location: Hampshire
Fair play to you Dave Mod, I've been on here a fair few years and your "gentle but firm hand on the tiller" has been spot on.

Yes some people do get carried away but generally most of us are ok. We don't all like what the bands has put out over the years but most of us can appricate each others views.

We do not want to drop to the level of the Def Leppard site were nothing even vaguley critical is permitted or the Status Quo Forum where they slag each other off on a regular basis with members being banned and topics being deleted left, right and centre.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 467
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:idea:


Last edited by Mullethead on Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2502
Location: Ontario Canada
I'm glad you trashed the thread Dave.
It was just kindling for a Sunday night bonfire anyway.
And I've gotta get up at 3:30 monday morning.
F*ck it.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:05 am
Posts: 3605
Location: Kent, UK, in an unfashionable spiral arm of the galaxy
I won't go into my views - they're well known - but I will point out a couple of relevant issues.

Don't believe all you read on the net. Unless you saw a person type a comment in treat it as a possible spoof. Who's to say a poster isn't playing devil's advocate, or even having a wind up?

Don't make assumptions about throw away comments. Many of us who post on unmoderated sites such as Facebook have posted messages condoning behaviour that may be outside the norm, even the law. I, for one, wouldn't want my every comment examined & publicly dissected on a site I don't even use &tam therefore denied the right of reply. "Anything you are alleged to have posted or may be interpreted as not following the party line, even if intended for friends & associates only, will be used against you" - sounds ominously like Brother to you too?

If someone wants to make allegations about a person's integrity, opinions or affiliations then Wikileaks has the mechanisms to deal with whistleblowers.

This is a moderated forum. It has to be. It is here primarily as a medium to promote a band, not a lifestyle or political affiliation. It reaches a worldwide audience & users should respect its aims. Other sites I visit have far more moderation (some border on abuse for violations). Even the Moorcock forum is heavily policed, with posters censured for certain language, opinions or blatant canvassing.

If you hear or read an opinion you don't like take it up with the individual involved, especially if you have a history of disagreement with that person.

A moderator's lot, eh? I know that DaveMod thought very carefully about his decision to halt the debate (not censor it - it's still visible) & I support his actions as being in the interests of the forum, especially at a time when the Hawkfest & album release are taking up so much time.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:50 am 
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Posts: 521
I think davemod and Jimski talk alot of common sense. The net is awash with false rumours and half truths, and people seem to lose their inhibitions because of the anonymity it affords. I often use the KVR forum for musicians, and you wouldn't believe the amount of invective that can occur over such relativly dry topics as which vst plugin most closely resembles a piece of vintage synth equipment. We should try to keep it calm even when we don't agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
Mediocrity reigns around here. It's a singularity. Have we really all become so old and cold that we have to chase away anyone who happens to have a little fire in their belly? Does anyone here actually remember what it feels like to walk through the Traveller's Field, wild, dangerous and psychedelic as hell!?

Of course we all need a safe haven, but surely there could be a space for everyone here. The only people still left here are all just a bit too 'nice'.. like me :|.

..and I noticed another thread just got closed down. Fair enough or whatever I guess. But I think I should point out to Dave, who is understandably a little paranoid, that poeple don't dredge up old threads in the way he suggests. If they're like me then they use bookmarks and feeds to keep tabs on things that interest them until they become relevant again. Of course what is interesting to one person...


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