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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 394
Location: North Shields Tyne and Wear
In my personal opinion i think somethings are best left unsaid, especially on here where for those of us who mainly appreciate Hawkwind for who and what they are now and of what has past, is going to have nowhere left for share our memories of what they enjoy, through sad individuals spoiling it as some would say please just think for a moment the vast majority of us who do use this forum and are genuine fans would hate to see it closed officially through slanderous comments etc Peace always Bev x see those of you who can make it at hawkfest :)
OOh It just really maddens me when i see such negative comments being written on here there Rant over x

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
Here's the politics:

- 1 or 2 people get mouthy or have an argument..
- They take centre stage as the thread is constantly bumped up to the top..
- Their egos grow, and our delicate sensibilities soon get offended..
- We cry out that they are spoiling it for everyone else..
- We censor/ban/delete and make new rules to try to stop it happening.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a very unhealthy cycle that has been going on for too long? Is it really as unavoidable and inevitable as it seems? Couldn't we be doing this a whole lot better? :idea: :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:09 am
Posts: 114
no mate, some peole just want to come on here and knock the band down and ex members whatever the consequence, morally or legally, and some of these idiots visit the halls of slander and libel....which will not do at all....so, unfortunately, things have to be nipped in the bud...simple


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
Timelord wrote:..consequence..

:) ..I think you're quite right except for the last bit. I would say thus:

...some of these idiots visit the halls of slander and libel....which will not do at all...but, fortunately there is always a better way..a change for the better. A structural change..

I don't really think in retrospect that freeforums.org was really the right choice for Hawkwind, but I realize that maybe the roots run to deep to change that now. But there are still many structural changes that could be made to include all the different types of Hawkwind fan.

For example, amoung the many new fora created could be a 'Gossip' section where all the more volatile threads could be moved. This section would of course be subtitled with a warning to take things with a pinch of salt. The stuff in there might be ugly, and I doubt I would read it much, but at least people could vent their spleens. And there is a lot a venting to be done..

:idea: The ancient idea of a 'forum' demands free-speech. I don't think I will ever change my view on that..

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Location: Kent, UK, in an unfashionable spiral arm of the galaxy
JephraimToe wrote:For example, amoung the many new fora created could be a 'Gossip' section where all the more volatile threads could be moved. This section would of course be subtitled with a warning to take things with a pinch of salt. The stuff in there might be ugly, and I doubt I would read it much, but at least people could vent their spleens. And there is a lot a venting to be done..


I've read your previous posts with interest and am largely sympathetic. A lot of the forum is stuff like fav lists etc. (I'm no stranger to posting this stuff myself) but there is the point that the forum is here to promote Hawkwind and their activities. It's not a spleen-venting site - it's a band website.

Gossip is fine, as long as it's harmless, but there are areas where this gets overstepped and subjects become the source of hanging out dirty washing/axe-grinding and this is where the problems lie.

Lets look at a couple of examples:

1) To quote an individual's ambiguous posting on a chatsite that was meant for private digestion only and put your own spin on it, reinforced by personal allegations is not band-related, it reflects only on the poster's predjudices and may well be against the law. No forum worth it's salt would accept this.

2) To quote a published interview and comment on non-ambiguous quotes is fine, probably legal, but it should really be relevant to the band/forum subject. This is normally acceptable on most forums.

There is no reason that healthy discussion of issues can't carry on but intentionally hurtful or libellous unsubstantiated comments don't really fall into the realms of 'healthy discussion', even by the longest stretch of the imagination.

Again, my personal opinion is that if the band or its ex-members go on the record (i.e. in published interviews) then they set themselves up for praise or criticism. It is, however, noticable that those musicians have kept quiet about matters relating to their business and that we should respect their actions because, for them, it's their livelihood whereas for us it's a hobby.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:22 pm
Posts: 626
Location: liverpool
ive been off line for a while and look what ive missed.....tut tut.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Posts: 4207
Location: UK - N Devon
If I'm a guest in someone's house, then freedom of speech doesn't give me the moral right to keep criticising or annoying my hosts.

This forum is Hawkwind territory, a side-branch of hawkwind.com, and we're their guests... so the rules of courtesy are surely rather different to, say, the HW yahoogroup.


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
alan wrote:..look what ive missed..

We've been debating whether or not to let barking dogs lie. It's a bit political I suppose. I think we should let the Windhead dogs have their say, if they talk shit we can make fertilizer. It's all part of my great 300-year cosmic plan to heal the Hawk-Tribes. Gotta start somewhere :mrgreen:

But I do genuinely think these forums would greatly benefit from a re-structuring. For many reasons, not just because of the politics of free-speech..

And I would say we are a 'Hawkwind community', not 'guests of Hawkwind'. I hope that is the case. I do get a bit taken aback when I hear people say things like 'these forums exist to promote the band'. Really?


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Location: Kent, UK, in an unfashionable spiral arm of the galaxy
Again JT, I find myself largely agreeing with you. But the hard reality is that this site promotes the band- I'd hazard a guess that it 'sold' more Hawkfest tix than other media, at least initially - but the band promotes the message. The HW community is far wider than just one site or even internet use (& healthy because of it) - just ask Brian Tawn how many newsletters he used to print. Users come here because it's officially sanctioned &, while I wouldn't quite say we're guests here, it does allow us certain benefits because of the band's endorsement.

It saddens me to see any debate curtailed but it must be remembered that new users & visitors lurk all the time. What message does it send out to see the community - the one you & I both call 'ours' - engaged in a slagging match?

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Posts: 1640
Jimski wrote:It saddens me to see any debate curtailed but it must be remembered that new users & visitors lurk all the time. What message does it send out to see the community - the one you & I both call 'ours' - engaged in a slagging match?

A: "Most of the best Starfighter pilots can be found here. Only watch your step. This place can be a little rough."

I just wanted to save to DaveMod, who I guess will read this thread at some point, that I think of you when I hear the track Sentinal :wink:



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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2502
Location: Ontario Canada
Rag about Hawkwind on Alan Davey's website...not about Alan on here.
A lot of us got to know the man and still respect his contributions to the band.
Such negativity is counterproductive.
Move on man.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm
Posts: 1640
@voilodian ghagnasdiak ♥

I don't know why master headcorn is so anti-elf, I didn't care to read the thread too closely. If he comes back maybe we could all move over to the gossip section and discuss it over tea, toast and muffins.. :)

btw does anyone know what the letters B.N.P. stand for? :|
(I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with marmite) :?


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:49 pm
Posts: 48
I certainly appreciate the concept of the forum and that we have to choose our masques for appropriate converse. To not discuss politics, on this forum would be non hawkwind to the magnu with all their political jibes, Uncle Sam, jabs, Urban Guerilla warnings, Damnation Alley, commentaries, High Rise, etc. They are a political band with political commentaries rife. So no politics would mean no Hawkwind. It would be to our advantage, as mentioned above, to be able to read offending politics to give them their due dismissal as out of touch.

As to gossip, most of the postings here are gossip driven as they are mostly opinion driven.
Until there is a complete, unabridged, carved in menhirs truth of all past, present and future history of members of the band, it's a family squabble, let them sort it out, nasties and all, but as in all families keep it out of the open. Any ex complaining about the band is doing themselves a disservice by their disagreeable acts. Get over it.

May you never need blindness to see the beauty in others

Hawkhead


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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 103
I missed whatever it was started this off (good). But I wonder if there's room for compromise? Its been suggested up there ^^^^ a seperate section. A "Rants and Debates" section was added to another forum, not indexed by the bots and visible only when signed in. Its made obvious that anything posted there represents only the views of the poster.

Having said that I like the laid back vibe here, so maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Please read
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:08 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Munich
Highscores: 1
Come on, this is a Joke, right????

Some one in a band changes his name to ALI Bang Bing Bong and has a facebook page were he rants and raves. So f&cking what........................................

I couldnt care a monkeys what his name is or his believes are etc.

On the record I think his music is sh&t but that is just me.

For a forum MOD who is using freeforums FFS to get all high and mighty over limiting freedom of speech is pathetic.

This isnt a band owned forum, funded by a Label, its a forum set up for free FFS.

Big difference.

Come on.....................................................................................

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