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 Post subject: Re: Euro elections
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5258
Wasn't sure exactly where to post this; I perused 9 back-pages and found this thread which seems more than vaguely connected.

Apologies if this takes the previous topic on a tangent, but there's been no recent activity here anyway, so hey ho.

From UPI
EU investigates Hungary for anti-immigration legislation

By Allen Cone
April 12, 2017

Timmermans said the new asylum law adopted by the national parliament at the end of March "also raises serious doubts about compatibility with EU law." ... m_medium=2


This is what I do not understand about the EU.

On matters of national sovereignty, there must be no ambiguity.   The word 'sovereignty' is a noun with very clear definition :  supreme power or authority.

If a nation-state is sovereign, it then has sole authority to decide on matters concerning it's own interests, regardless of what the governments and/or peoples of other countries think or feel.  

International diplomacy is the conduct of international relations through the intercession of professional diplomats with regard to issues of peace-making, trade, war, economics, cultural exchange, environment, and human rights;  these are areas which have an impact on the interest of other nations.

Whether or not, or in case how, and to what extent, any nation chooses to allow citizens of other nations to enter it's territory and reside therein ~ either temporarily or permanently ~ is at the sole discretion of the sovereign.  It is not a question of human rights.  It is not every person's "right" to choose which nation in the world to belong to or reside in ~ nationality is but a birthright.   Sanctuary is a privilege  of  immunity afforded by refuge, as granted by nations which are able  and willing to do so, within that nation's means and within parametres of national security interest.

In lieu of a constitutional law framework and a common bill of rights upheld by a federal Supreme Court (elected or appointed by elected officials), as well as a system of elected representation (on a federal level), by which legislation is drafted and enacted, and judicial appointees are selected (and terms predetermined) thereby uniting individual States within a common national sovereignty which outlines individual-state rights and federal powers and the extent and limits of each ~ it seems any such democratic union is doomed to fail
(become authoritarian) where it seeks to usurp sovereignty from nation-states already governed by self-determined constitutions and elected legislative bodies, and from which its citizens have not agreed to participate.

Either the EU is a nation with sovereignty over its member-states, in which case the latter have limited sovereignty (e.g. within a constitutional revisory) and are therefore no longer sovereign nations unto themselves but which thereby must also have proportionate representation within the unified sovereign itself as participatory legislators (so as to remain democratic ), or, the countries of Europe remain individual nations which may or may not, at each country's sovereign discretion, be signatory to the international accords of the EU.

If there is no clear Iine of demarcation
on the issue of sovereignty, then the elected officials of member-states are allowing foreign dictatorial governance of their own constituents, despite established law to the contrary.


the articles appear intentionally ambiguous, and this would seem to give credence to my theory that a test is being conducted to dissolve national sovereignty on a global scale (if such a plan succeeds in Europe) as a logical evolvement from the currently unsustainable capitalist system that manipulates economic outcomes and locks nations into a debt economy, the creditors being the global banks.

 Post subject: Re: Euro elections
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:07 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 12:11 pm
Posts: 431
There's a lot of name calling, pseudo statistics, fake news, post truth, bla bla, surrounding the EU and the UK referendum result to leave.
But my base line perspective is that enabling the populations of Africa, and the Middle East and wherever else now or future to relocate in Europe and or UK is simply not sustainable.

 Post subject: Re: Euro elections
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:09 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:50 am
Posts: 1960
Location: Portugal Central
Blimey, **** got censored !
How about **** TRACY or **** VAN **** ?

 Post subject: Re: Euro elections
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 am
Posts: 5258

 you were right though, Smugdruggler ~ the only thing I'm missing is the two-way wrist radio, which (smartwatch) I will actually be acquiring soon ~ Deck Tracy would be proud !   

@ Mpc
I'm by no means an expert in Euro economics or anthropology, but one doesn't have to be an expert in anything, really, to grasp that what you say is true.  This is one of the points that has led me to question several key aspects with regard to the accord.   EU stands (in name) for a union and yet lacks the constitutional framework such a collective of 'states-united ' would require in order to fulfill self-determination.    Obviously there are obstacles and differences and indeed great challenges to achieving European nationhood. 

Forced multiculturalism does not work.
It never will.  I see this is one of the test criteria for a world without borders.
It is important to understand that multiculturalism and multi-ethnic culture are two different things.  The latter, in the context of a national union, is an established culture  (such as Canada or Britain, etc.)  in which people of various ethnic backgrounds and racial ancestry adapt and share a language, social structure, and an established system of government that is underpinned by a constitution which is the supreme law of the land and to which every citizen swears allegiance.

Multiculturalism on the other hand, is the gradual, and sometimes surreptitious permeation by which one culture supplants another as a parallel domicile.   This will insure conflict, especially if the superseding culture is incompatible on grounds of religious tolerance, law, language, and modes of social interaction particularly that of
exchange; the forming of relationships based on a mutual determination that it is in everyone's best interests.
Democracy and Theocracy are incompatible by the fact of each ones very essences.  There are other issues as well that pose new challenges. 

It is natural sociological patterning that different nations exist in the world;  we need to be working on other, more important, IMO, challenges with regard to international diplomacy and self-governance within our respective domiciles.  

Unity can be a wonderful thing.  The key is to find the common social and political facets under which to join together as a true union.   Money cannot substitute in place of this,
nor be the basis by which it is formed.

Constitutional law and democracy, a fair and humanitarian yet realistic immgration policy that includes proper vetting to evaluate and insure a citizen's suitability to assimilate are crucial to the survival of any republic.  This is one of the primary reasons I am wary of the prospects of the accord.


 Post subject: Re: Euro elections
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:33 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 4521
indeed and agree - corrupt politicians bailed out bondholders (gambler's)/banks here which sold our sovereignty to the likes of the imf at the expense of the taxpayer - and then you have the likes of the oecd spewing their predictable statistical ragnarok nonsense which means nothing - the floodgates of immigration is indeed unsustainable - particularly people just arriving and living off the state without any real contributions - a lot of 'them' live a life of luxury here - free travel, apartment's and so on - sure why wouldn't you?! - i remember not so long ago - the influx of polish people here working for little or nothing - 'menial jobs' as it was regarded - barwork/cleaning and so on - fair play to them - the irish were 'so we'll off' that they wouldn't even consider it - the 'crasshh' changed everything!

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