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 Post subject: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 am 
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The following, which can be seen as an abstract reasoning based in observation of current news-information content, religious permeation into politics, and the study of armed conflict, expressed as thoughts on the concept of Ancestral Fault \Collective Guilt, and the question as to whether examination of the basis of the social paradigm in which this mindset is deeply ingrained, might hold answers to ways by which global wars can be avoided.

The origin of the concept of Collective Guilt as a doctrinal design of social control with roots in historic antiquity ...
Spoiler:
... (the effects of which are still directly prevalent today) is the Tanakh ~ the canonical collection of Jewish texts.  Its constructs, namely Collective Blame and Collective Punishment ,  are the fundamentals of a mindset; a mental-inertia, or "groupthink", also found to be promulgated in the Christian Old Testament.  Such designs trace back to the early architects of authoritarianism and a method of thought control with the ultimate aim of establishing a social paradigm.  Alternately refered to as Collective Responsibilty, it is often used as a disciplinary measure in closed institutions, such as boarding schools, wherein an entire classroom of pupils is punished for the infraction of a single troublemaker.  Military units, penitentiaries, and psychiatric institutions commonly and sometimes cruelly employ the measure.  The effectiveness and severeity of Collective Punishment exist in a ratio of interrelational apportion by measure, while the method itself most commonly breeds distrust and isolation among constituents under its discipline , and is almost always a sign of authoritarian rule in the institution, home society, or general domain in which it is disseminated.

The practice of Collective Punishment itself goes as far back in history as authoritarian rulers can be notably traced;  someone breaks the law but that person remains unknown to those holding jurisdiction of punishment.
Rather than undertaking an investigative effort to discover the identity of the perpetrator(s) ~ whether out of haste, frustration, or disdain ~ as well as a need to keep up a sense of law and order within the community and the  appearance of its rulers' effectiveness, the entire community is punished, thus insuring that the unknown offender receives punishment.  This method in turn reinforces the idea of Collective Guilt.

The Greek principle of 'Ancestral Fault' codified by Plutarch in the De Sera numinus vindicta , is fully exploited by Grotious in his long discussion of Collective Responsibility.

In ethics, both methodological individualists and normative individualists question the validity of collective responsibility.  The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy dedcribes
methodological individualism' s challenge to the very possibility of associating moral agency with groups as distinct from their individual members, and the normative individualist arguement, which holds that collective responsibility violates principles of individual responsibility and fairness.

The exponential augmentation of the overall mindset of Collective Guilt, especially when combined with xenophobia and/or psychological projection (a.k.a. blame shifting),  leads to racial and ethnic unfairness, inequity, prejudice, bigotry, intolerance, and hatred.  In some cases, augmentation leads to misanthropy.


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:41 pm 
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warren mitchell - and west ham - a good comedy!


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:09 am 
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Interesting that there's this connection ~ I've not previously heard of Warren Mitchell or the sitcom of that title.

I chose it here simply to mean,

is society never to be free from thought-control
designed to divide and conquer
?

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:43 am 
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maybe xanadu wouldn't be a bad place to pitch one's tent?!


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:19 pm 
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vikmarlo wrote:Interesting that there's this connection ~ I've not previously heard of Warren Mitchell or the sitcom of that title.

I chose it here simply to mean,

is society never to be free from thought-control
designed to divide and conquer
?


The series was remade as 'All in the Family' in the U.S. with Archie Bunker replacing Alf Garnet.

It is now considered un-PC but it was a real send up of the prejudices of the time. I always thought Alf looked like Ghandi. Maybe it was deliberate!

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 pm 
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For richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health - ticked all of those!

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Warren Mitchell was the original Pub Landlord too.

Nice cultural confusion and obscurity for those across the pond!

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:47 pm 
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more light heartedly and on a basic level - as regard's 'collective punishment' - i remember cooking a dinner for me three children many moon's ago - me youngest fellow was about 3 and the eldest 9ish with me daughter in the middle - the youngest threw his dinner down the jack's but didn't flush it (he would have got away with it otherwise!) - so the penny dropped with me - i called a meeting with the children in the bathroom and showed the evidence - me youngest son being the culprit and in stout denial! - the eldest son started crying and just said 'tell daddy the truth'! - i didn't punish them but we talked - probably put him off pork chip's for life!


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:48 pm 
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chop's


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Never understood why people eat chops - take the fat and bone off and you've a piece of meat the size of a two-bob bit. For the same price you can have two pies!

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:05 am 
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pork chops, mince (rib) stew's, were staple dinner's around here back in the day (when we had meat!) - nearly put me off them for life! - i was never a pie fan as i alway's found pastry hard to digest (with the exception of me ma's delicious cornich pasties and gravy/pea's!) - the sauce being the hunger of course! - a takeaway single of chips some friday's were to die for!


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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Meat and potato pie with suet crust pastry - food of the gods!

However not allowed for me anymore... Seems all the good stuff is bad for me. I need a new vice!

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 Post subject: Re: De sera numinus vindicta : till death do us part ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:45 pm 
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indeed - suet and pastry in large quantity's can equal thick blood and it's consequences - i guess I've been lucky so far meself - i love food although i'm 'reasonably careful' but seem to have a taste for the stuff that is more or less good for the body (according to the 'people in the know') - i guess one suet pudding a week would be allowed! - well balanced diet and all that!- also - i recommend the wok! - look east! - raw garlic/turmeric etc don't make any friends but who cares! - now for a pint of guinness!


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