Hawkwindforum

JephraimToe wrote:

Sweep wrote:Yes, the mix definitely sounded wrong to me in a few places.

Blood of the Earth was created in Ableton Live. My opinion is that excessive tweaking is to blame. The quest for perfection leads musicians to overload the available space until the music can't breathe properly. But like I said, it's not Hawkwind's fault, it's the just sonic signature of our time. The 21st century wall-of-sound. As Bob Dylan said, "these modern records, they're atrocious, they have sound all over them". I hope that, in time, sound production will change again with the best of both worlds, the old and the new. But with all these new toys to play with, it could take some time..

I wouldn't mind a minimal direction for the next HW album... as long as there are just a few rockers on it, that is...

The running order is a bit of a diss-apointment too. I've found it hard to find anything better though, it's currently on my my playlist as follows:

Blood of the Earth; Sentinal; Green Machine; Wraith; Prometheus; Seahawks; Sweet Obsession; Inner Visions; Comfy Chair; Sunship

..It's still not quite their yet (space is). I'm thinking of adding in 'Tide of the Century (live version)' as a replacement for 'You’d Better Believe It (studio version)'. See the irony there? Oh these cold icy evenings..

Anyone got anything better yet

(edit) ..OK, 'Tide of the Century (live version)' is now track 7 after Seahawks. Acutually the production quality matches well with the studio stuff and the crowd noise sounds lovely mixed with the sounds of surf and seagulls

I think one reason that Dave has kept going is that he has never been 100% satisfied with an album. In Britain we moan about everything all the time, it's how we get things done here.

On the contrary...I consider Dave Brock to be a relentless man, bound to both his convictions as
a musician and father too Hawkwind as a whole.

..I would have thought that way when I was young. But I can't see it like a cheesy metal band where the fans fight under one banner for their glorious leader. In retrospect I can see that it's always been a tribal collective.. of course if your tribe feel that way then that's cool

Playing a rôle as a captain is not the same as being a leader I should say. It's a very important rôle though, the man is a true chaos engineer..

"I would have thought that way when I was young"

Exactly 54 years young...and appreciate the compliment.
After listening to Hawkwind for the past 40 years I suppose I am somewhat of a fanatic.
I'm at a point in my life where I very, very rarely listen to any other music and appreciate any injection into the vast Hawkwind catalogue.
Do you think we'd be better off living in an alternative reality where BOTE was never released?

..gosh no! It was about bloody time! I love the album by the way, but really, if you don't have anything negative to say then why are you in the disappointment thread?

..and another thing . That damn cover was just a still of the animation that Kreluminati had already made. The animation is fantastic but as a cover it looks a bit crap. If they had realeased the animation as part of a promo video then it would have made more sense. A bit disappointed that that never came together, conceptual packaging and all that.. I'm going to have a wee stab at it myself when I get a few spare hours.

On the other hand the album and stage show sit very nicely together. Great stuff, no complaints there..

I have no use for the poem Blood Of The Earth, I would've rather seen
an instrumental track in it's place.
There's your smattering of negativity.
These releases have been so far and few between that I shudder to think
of it ever coming to an end.

..it might surprise you to know that I live my life backwards in time. It certainly came as a shock to my friends and family. While it can be a curse and often confusing, I can re-assure you that Hawkwind as a band continues long beyond the life-span of any here on this forum. As for myself, I already know I only have another 40 years of Hawkwind, but I know I'm in for one hell of a ride

People these days are scared of mastering their albums quiet - or even medium quiet. It's ridiculous.

modern albums always remind of the tale about the greek philosopher talking to his pupils about the meaning oif life etc. he took them to the parthenon and asked them what was holding the building up. they all said the pillars to which the reply was. think again. after they all looked non plussed, he went on to explain the spaces between the pillars also held the roof up. if you leave no space, you cannot get in as you have built a wall: put all the pillars at one end the building and the roof collapses so space is essential.
there was a bit more philosophising in the original but that's the gist of it. you need space or things don't work.

It's a great point well put! (as Lard used to say...)

Playing instruments well is hard. The guitar is hard to play, as is the bass, the drums, a flute, the piano, a violin etc. Even a tambourine is hard to play well.

However playing around with Ableton, Logic and VSTs is not hard. Infact the debates I have with musician friends now, is no longer about music. Its about which near field monitors are better, or if Cubase is still the original, or the only thing you need is an Macbook Pro running Max/MSP/Jitter, or which audio interface offers the lowest latency etc.

It called G.A.S. (Gear Addiction Syndrome) and begins to inflict everyone eventually.

I caught the disease a while ago and it plays with your brain in many ways. It convinced me that the only real "true" music was that generated by the SID chip of a Commodore 64.

If you dont believe me, check out this cosmic dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZUH0p6cXc

Addicted with GAS I thought I could beat him, so I decided to make some eBay purchases. 2xCommodore 64, a monitor, a special cartridge that only secret chiefs know about, so I cant list it here, but it allows you to control 2xSID chips over midi. But man the monitor was broken when it arrived. Disappointed, I slept on the dilemma. In the night I had a dream, I was back at six form college in computer science classes writing a word processor for a Commodore PET computer and Eureka my current project was born. Housing a Commodore 64 "inside" the belly of a Commodore PET. So I hit ebay again and bought a Commodore PET. I stripped it down. I decided that I would install both a Commodore 64 and an Atom based PC in the Belly. The idea was the Atom would run a keyboard controlled fractal based midi sequencer and the 64 I would run a Game Of Life touch screen generator; both would control the dual SID C64. I wanted to interface the original PET keyboard, so then I bought a micro controller kit and wrote some software to translate the PET keyboard to PC over USB. Any how, the project is on going and I digress.

I hear you ask, what this got to do with BOTE?

Well the Hawks have caught GAS. They believe now that the only "True" sound is to use a collection of software, and "current" plugins to create that sound. It is what happens when you run out of ideas...........................So they meet a dude with a laptop
and he shows them how to turn the sound into a "True" cosmic sound. I cant play the Guitar well, and the man with the laptop cant play well either but he can tweak out some basic sound, because as I said above, its not hard to do. It is however hard to do well.

The irony is that "The Hawks" are masters at traditional instruments. So IMO, stick to those. Dont pull out the laptops. Keep it simple...

Oh and bring back Nik!

..from what I can gather this has been an ongoing debate within the band as well as among fans. The 'Take me to Your Leader' album marked the start of this process as it was being continuously revised with the latest plugins. Then after the album was released a curious split emerged in the band with both factions proclaiming each other as computer obsessed and a desire to go more 'organic'. The rift did it's job and then everyone continued using the computers anyway. Then Dibs joined the band with his rallying cry of "Death to computers", but he was soon absorbed into the matrix too and now the band presents a seemingly united techno front.

I try not to criticise all this though, I'm just along for the ride, and they are still the same barbarians with technology they have always been. Whether this move has been a blunder or not, time will tell. But either way it's another interesting chapter in the saga..

jamun wrote:Playing instruments well is hard. The guitar is hard to play, as is the bass, the drums, a flute, the piano, a violin etc. Even a tambourine is hard to play well.

However playing around with Ableton, Logic and VSTs is not hard. Infact the debates I have with musician friends now, is no longer about music. Its about which near field monitors are better, or if Cubase is still the original, or the only thing you need is an Macbook Pro running Max/MSP/Jitter, or which audio interface offers the lowest latency etc.

It called G.A.S. (Gear Addiction Syndrome) and begins to inflict everyone eventually.

I caught the disease a while ago and it plays with your brain in many ways. It convinced me that the only real "true" music was that generated by the SID chip of a Commodore 64.

If you dont believe me, check out this cosmic dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZUH0p6cXc

Addicted with GAS I thought I could beat him, so I decided to make some eBay purchases. 2xCommodore 64, a monitor, a special cartridge that only secret chiefs know about, so I cant list it here, but it allows you to control 2xSID chips over midi. But man the monitor was broken when it arrived. Disappointed, I slept on the dilemma. In the night I had a dream, I was back at six form college in computer science classes writing a word processor for a Commodore PET computer and Eureka my current project was born. Housing a Commodore 64 "inside" the belly of a Commodore PET. So I hit ebay again and bought a Commodore PET. I stripped it down. I decided that I would install both a Commodore 64 and an Atom based PC in the Belly. The idea was the Atom would run a keyboard controlled fractal based midi sequencer and the 64 I would run a Game Of Life touch screen generator; both would control the dual SID C64. I wanted to interface the original PET keyboard, so then I bought a micro controller kit and wrote some software to translate the PET keyboard to PC over USB. Any how, the project is on going and I digress.

I hear you ask, what this got to do with BOTE?

Well the Hawks have caught GAS. They believe now that the only "True" sound is to use a collection of software, and "current" plugins to create that sound. It is what happens when you run out of ideas...........................So they meet a dude with a laptop
and he shows them how to turn the sound into a "True" cosmic sound. I cant play the Guitar well, and the man with the laptop cant play well either but he can tweak out some basic sound, because as I said above, its not hard to do. It is however hard to do well.

The irony is that "The Hawks" are masters at traditional instruments. So IMO, stick to those. Dont pull out the laptops. Keep it simple...

Oh and bring back Nik!

Interesting reading, but DON'T bring Nik back.....please

JephraimToe wrote:..from what I can gather this has been an ongoing debate within the band as well as among fans. The 'Take me to Your Leader' album marked the start of this process as it was being continuously revised with the latest plugins. Then after the album was released a curious split emerged in the band with both factions proclaiming each other as computer obsessed and a desire to go more 'organic'. The rift did it's job and then everyone continued using the computers anyway. Then Dibs joined the band with his rallying cry of "Death to computers", but he was soon absorbed into the matrix too and now the band presents a seemingly united techno front.

I try not to criticise all this though, I'm just along for the ride, and they are still the same barbarians with technology they have always been. Whether this move has been a blunder or not, time will tell. But either way it's another interesting chapter in the saga..

The process of continuous editing, mixing etc and computer sounds - using MIDI - goes back to Electric Tepee but obviously not always since that 'session'. Brock solo from c. 1979 onwards (still evident on Memos) seems to use a lot of the same creative process too, some of which is the basis for some of the RCA tracks.

Obviously the production and reliance on studio sounds versus live in studio and even live mixing varies from session/album to session/album, label to label, studio to studio and producer to producer. As I see it Warrior seems to be more production-oriented than before, Astounding much less (you could imagine no studio sounds not 'played' added at all), Quark/Hawklords/PXR5/Levitation/Sonic Attack more so again and CoH/CYM reliant on lots of studio effects and 80's rock production. That trend continues until Space Bandits which is much more organic IMO. What I think would be good for Hawkwind to do is to dabble more in stripped down production and played/rehearsed/jammed music that can be laid down in the studio.